Gen 3 owners please read! Camshaft Issue (Diesel)

[damtom85]

let me say this way, information for person who is working for Mazda, and my friend, 148781 is the last one with issue

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[newmazdaowner]

let me say this way, information for person who is working for Mazda, and my friend, 148781 is the last one with issue

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Yes, I would say that is the case (perhaps) but what was the start of the range? Ross's link to his list of problems suggests that 148781 was the START of the range, which only confuses many people.

[damtom85]

tsb says Vin modifications started from 148781 so it means when revised engines were produced, fault free. When I asked my friend about starting VIN, he said Mazda is not sure either as camshaft were manufactured by outside company and they found about problem when user started complaining with first models

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[SRP1958]

TSB R074/14C has been superseded by TSB R073/15.

I can't find my copy of the later TSB at the moment but the only difference I could find between the two was that the later TSB does not mention replacing the vacuum pump. It looks as though Mazda, and their dealers, have been quietly replacing the vacuum pumps under warranty when the cars have been serviced, thereby eliminating the strange feel to the brake pedal and masking the root cause which is the issue with the exhaust camshafts.

This then lets the cars run longer before the camshaft and turbo issues become apparent by which time they may be out of warranty and the large repair bills can then be put onto the car owner.

[newmazdaowner]

TSB R074/14C has been superseded by TSB R073/15.

I can't find my copy of the later TSB at the moment but the only difference I could find between the two was that the later TSB does not mention replacing the vacuum pump. It looks as though Mazda, and their dealers, have been quietly replacing the vacuum pumps under warranty when the cars have been serviced, thereby eliminating the strange feel to the brake pedal and masking the root cause which is the issue with the exhaust camshafts.

This then lets the cars run longer before the camshaft and turbo issues become apparent by which time they may be out of warranty and the large repair bills can then be put onto the car owner.

Yep, that sure goes along with the theory that Mazda hoped to eliminate the hefty warranty claims for most of the middle miliage under 3-year old diesels and let owners (not company drivers) suffer the cost when the camshafts finally get to the 'unserviceable' stage. In my opinion, with ordinary petrol engines doing well over 100,000 miles these days, any diesel engined vehicle that was serviced and 'oiled' as per manufacturers recommendations, that fails with less than 150,000 on the clock should be deemed as being a manufacturing problem and not wear and tear.

[maffa]

OK guys, it seems I am the latest Mazda 6 owner to experience this camshaft issue. M6 2.2 diesel sportnav 150ps, Registered July13, I have owned it since July16. Done 34k miles. No extended warranty, but full Mazda service history.

I came from having a 2008 Honda accord EX, again a 2.2 diesel and was very happy with it until the engine needed a complete overhaul at 160k at which point I switched to the Mazda (new accords weren’t as good). My first impressions of the M6 was that the engine wasn’t as pokey as the Honda and not as economic either (used to average 45mpg for Honda, M6 about 41mpg, but I do less motorway miles than I used to.

Anyway, I had been experiencing a drop off in power at the higher revs when changing up gears, only a brief pause in acceleration but definitely noticeable. I can’t confirm this, but I think it may have been there since I have owned the car, so didn’t think too much of it. Then 2 weeks ago, I started hearing a slight whooshing noise at low revs around town, This lasted for 2 days before all power was lost, car still driveable but no power what so ever, I limped slowly to my localish Mazda garage (motolux Mazda in Newbury). Incidentally, there were no warning signs / errors shown on dash, but I suspected that the turbo was knackered. I presented the car to mazda, and explained the noises / my diagnostic and agreed to leave it with them.

It took about 4 days for them to start looking at the car due to busy time of year being new models out and old ones due their services. Anyway, back came the diagnostic of wearing camshaft, blown turbo (it was full of oil apparently) gaskets, flushing etc. 3 Repair kits were mentioned. In fairness Mazda pointed out to me first that there was a known issue with the camshaft and that they could put a claim together to try and get mazda to make a goodwill gesture towards the repair as a new turbo costs 2.5k just to buy. This claim process has taken about 7 working days, with apparently lots of report/photos etc and it was sat with Mazda technical for a while. I made a bit of a fuss (infront of other customers ), saying that they had had my car 2 weeks and I was still without a car, no idea of repair time or cost. I made a point of explaining what I knew of the manufacturing fault of inadequate metal used to make the camshaft on the earlier models and my knowledge of the TSB held in this sticky. Within a day, I had an answer from mazda technical that they would foot the bill of 80% of the costs at warranty prices and provide me a fully costsed hire car until my car was ready as the turbo is on back order and would take about 2 weeks. So, it looks like I will have a bill of approximately £450 which is pretty good in my book, not fantastic news as this is a manufacturing faulty that should be recalled and fully funded by mazda, but seeing as I neglected to take out the extended warranty, I am more than happy. Mazda motorlux did stress that if it didn’t have a full mazda service history then mazda technical wouldn’t even contemplate making a good will gesture.

When I pick up the car in a few weeks, I will get a full update on what was done/replaced and costings to suit.

[steve100]

Hi well done at least you are part way sorted and that's why i end most of my posts on here about the importance of warranties extended or otherwise as the repair costs of the modern cars is so high. Might be worth seeing if you can take one out on yours once the work is done. They do it in various forms with pay monthly ect I was going to take it out on my 14 plate this year but traded it for a pre reg 2017 IMHO a great car for the money. In my view the 2 most important extras when buying a car are warranties and GAP insurance EQUALS PEACE OF MIND. Good Luck.
Cheers Steve

[damtom85]

Steve if Mazda would recall all models are affected there wouldn't be a need for extended warranty. Other thing when i had mine done i received automatic extended warranty for engine up to 100k miles and another year , maffa you should expect that from them!

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[newmazdaowner]

OK guys, it seems I am the latest Mazda 6 owner to experience this camshaft issue. M6 2.2 diesel sportnav 150ps, Registered July13, I have owned it since July16. Done 34k miles. No extended warranty, but full Mazda service history. - ETC.......

Hi, as Steve said, well done for being so bold as to cause a ruckous at your dealership, something that too many drivers these days are not prepared to do. However, maybe better than that, I am sure you will agree, was to become a member of this forum and to see all the hullabaloo us members have been making since the great 'Mazda Camshaft Cover-up' was discovered.

When you say "I am the latest Mazda 6 owner to experience this camshaft issue" I can assure you that maybe you are the latest M6OC member to do that, but I can guarantee that there are scores, if not hundreds, of non members out there that are being conned into paying mega bucks to correct something that should have been part of a Mazda recall 2-years ago. The 2-week back order of camshafts confirms that thousands of 2.2D drivers all over Europe are in the same predicament.

I don't know how many of the posts you have read on this issue on this forum, but after hearing many horror stories from people that have had the issue so called 'rectified' by Mazda, which have needed the full 3-kit packs and even just the 2-kit ones (Vacuum pump and Turbo only), I, along with other members, have suggested that the only 'real' remedy is to replace the whole engine for free. We say that as the 'swarf' (millions of particles of 'chewed' metal) would be all over the engine, fuel system, exhaust system, by the time the car gets to the state yours in in. Different dealers used their own 'slant' on the TSB in question, especially relating to 'flushing' the engine thoroughly with special oil, before filling with engine oil. It is recommended that flushing be done three times, some dealers did two or even just one, or none at all!

I spoke to my dealership's service director about this problem when I picked up my new 2017 M6 Tourer in January and he said that they have dealt with many, many 'duff' 2.2 diesels in the last year, most of which had been serviced by other dealerships. Some of those dealerships always fill the engines with synthetic engine oil, which is a definate no no with Mazda, as the chemicals in the oil perish the oil seals. In his words "many unrelated and related Mazda diesel camshaft problems are due to either dealers or owners using synthetic engine oil"

Note: Only Mazda only dealerships, of which there are very few - i.e. those not selling other makes of cars - use Mazda only trained mechanics. Those non exclusive Mazda dealerships tend to have a 'pool' of mechanics that were primarily trained by the leading brand that they 'deal' - i.e. Vauxhall or Ford. Thus, stocks of engine and gearbox oil are sourced from a central place and if synthetic is recommended by the 'leading brand', that is what is used to service all cars brought to the dealership.

You have to realise that Mazda, all through the staffing chain from the President in Japan downwards to the dealerships all over the globe, have all known about this issue, including sales staff and the actual cars that were affected, via the VIN. That said, can I ask if you were informed when you bought the car that it was within the 'duff camshaft' VIN range and may have engine problems in the future? If not then you have a legal case to reject the car, even at this late stage and ask for either a full refund or a replacement car built after Feb/March 2014. It matters not that you never took out the extended warranty, as in law they sold you goods that were 'not fit for purpose' and they were aware of that. Also, don't forget that it is no defence to say that the salesperson was not aware of the camshaft problem and something that I have personal experience of, in law, it is impossible to prove a negative (i.e. didn't know) but somewhat easy to prove a possitive (did know) from third party testimony.

Believe me, had Mazda sold diesel powered cars in the USA, there would be a 'class action' against them by now and they would have been forced to recall all the known engines that were fitted with 'unhardened' camshafts. The 'unhardened' bit by the way, was because the auto production line where they were made did not include sufficiently hardening the steel after heating it, if at all, in an oil bath. Steel that is not hardened properly in a bath of oil is soft and easily worn down. To look at, you would not see any difference between oil hardened and non oil hardened steel and that is why they passed inspection by Mazda before fitting them.

It's up to you what you do about this, but if it was me I would play the 'reject the car' gambit first. If that failed, then in no way would I pay ANY money for the repairs, plus I would want a written 2-year warranty on any problems related to failing engine parts. Please don't get complacent about only being charged £450, as in Mazda's eyes they have given you a good deal and will expect you to foot the entire bill if the engine fails again, which it probably will ! Be aware that the last member that reported that his 'camshaft duff' car had been 'fixed', 6-days later posted that the engine seized whilst he was travelling at speed on a motorway. ENGINES CAN BE REPLACED - LIVES CAN'T

Good luck my friend, don't think that you are alone in all this and remember that written proof is available on here, should you wish to persue the legal route. Somehow, I think that merely threatening that will get some serious response from Mazda.

[steve100]

Oh yes I agree with you on the camshaft issue that should have been a recall. But what I am saying there is a lot of other items that could fail no matter how well things are made and how you look after them so what I am saying is an extended warranty after you dealer warranty expires makes financial sense as the best cover is about £500 per a year paid on a month by month basis and you can just cancel it if you sell the car. But if you get a further engine or transmission failure you are quids in as the repair costs are so high and there are plenty of other parts that can go wrong and you get your money back at the drop of a hat. Just like the GAP insurance one of the best extras you can get £250 for the possibility of getting £10000 plus 2 1/2 years down the line and I believe you can get it for 4 years now what a deal if you keep the car that long and get it written off or stolen.
Cheers Steve